Secrets of Sales Leadership Revealed: Tamsin Hobley's Journey to the Top at SIX Artwork

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Interviews with Leaders in Fintech & Web3

Secrets of Sales Leadership Revealed: Tamsin Hobley's Journey to the Top at SIX

September 27, 2024 • Work in Fintech • Season 2 • Episode 6

Summary
Tamsin Hobley, Country Head for UK and Ireland at SIX, shares her journey in the finance industry and the importance of sales leadership and strategic sales. She emphasises the value of curiosity, listening, and building relationships in sales.

Tamsin also discusses the role of SIX in the financial industry, including its various business units and its focus on technology. She highlights the significance of ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) in the industry and the need for companies to comply with ESG standards.

Tamsin talks about the importance of culture in the workplace, supporting working parents, and promoting diversity and inclusion. She offers advice for aspiring leaders, emphasising the importance of being brave, trying new things, and being open to diverse perspectives. Tamsin also discusses the future of SIX and her interest in non-executive roles and giving back.

Takeaways

Curiosity and building relationships are key in sales.
ESG compliance is important for companies in the finance industry.
Culture, support for working parents, and diversity and inclusion are crucial in the workplace.
Leaders should be open to diverse perspectives and communicate effectively.
The future of SIX involves innovation, growth, and potential non-executive roles.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Tamsin Hobley's Background
03:27 Transition from Retail Banking to Sales Leadership
08:54 The Importance of Learning from Experience in Sales
16:46 The Significance of ESG and Diversity in the Financial Sector
21:55 Building a Supportive Culture and Fostering Leadership
29:41 The Role of Diversity of Thought in Leadership
33:55 Effective Communication and Listening as a Leader
38:23 Future Plans and Giving Back

Tamsin Hobley https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamsinhobley/

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Hi, this is Matthew Cheung, founder of Work in Fintech. And today I'm delighted to be joined by Tamsin Hobley, who works for SIX. She's the country head for UK and Ireland. She's the global head of partners and alliances. And she's an advisory member to the Investment Association and also an advisory member to the All -Party Parliamentary Group on ESG. So hi, Tamsin, welcome today. Tamsin Hobley (00:31.722) Thank you very much for inviting me, delighted to be here. Matt (00:35.052) So you're a salesperson and it would be really good to hear your journey through the years from when you started out and to how you got to where you are now. You've been the country head of a major company. If you can dive into that and you've been at the same company for a long time as well, what's going to kept you there? It'd great to hear that story. Tamsin Hobley (00:52.444) Mm Tamsin Hobley (00:59.058) Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, I haven't always been in sales. I actually started out in retail banking. Having decided that my English degree that I was all set to do at Nottingham University was kind of not what I really wanted to be doing. I think I wanted to be in finance. So I announced that I wasn't going to go and do an English degree and my father said, well, you need to go and get a job. And in those days, basically late 80s, you could just walk into a bank so I joined Lloyds Bank. Whilst I thought I would just go there for a year and work out what I wanted to do, six months of filing didn't suit me and so I think I had a conversation with a senior person there and said look I didn't do A levels to just do filing and he said well if you do your banking exams with us I'll put you on a graduate scheme. So it was kind of like almost the first degree apprenticeships type of thing. So I did my banking exams and I went on a graduate program with Lloyds and basically did a variety of different diverse roles, some I liked, some I didn't. And I really thought that was going to be my career. I was one of the youngest branch managers. I was managing Newton Abbott branch at quite a young age. And then I met my husband, he worked in London. I thought I need to kind of move because this is in the West country. So move up to London. So I moved more into the corporate finance side and still sort of quite young, probably sort of mid to late 20s at that stage. And then I realised that the next position for me was waiting for somebody to retire. And I realised that I wasn't really that patient. And I also wanted to earn more money. So I thought, well, okay, I'm going to go into investment banking. That's what I'm going to do. So I tried investment banking. looked at wealth management, didn't get anywhere. No one was interested in me at all with my retail banking background. So I thought, well, okay, I need to pivot. How do I get into finance in the city? So I need to look at a solution provider. And that's how I ended up at Telecurse that was, which is a data company, but owned by a Swiss company. Tamsin Hobley (03:12.662) and we really were running it as our own little business in the UK. I was there quite early on in the start -up, know, they only there a few years before I joined and I went in as sales because I thought well what I can do is sell and that's kind how my career at six started, selling financial data, didn't know a lot about finance at that stage, not the finance I really needed to know about, selling into the finance industry, into banks, investment banks, wealth managers, private banks. asset, you know, and that was kind of cutting my teeth really in my first job in the city. So that would have been pre 2000. And yeah, just worked my way up, kind of became a senior account manager. And, and then really sort of like then kind of went into the sales leadership side and kind of then moved into kind of strategic kind of projects. And then kind of like started the partnership where I was managing the kind of global sales, the American and UK sales revenue generating activities. And then the country head role came up and I thought, actually this would widen my leadership capabilities. And I think I'm the natural kind of like person to succeed the person that was doing it. And yeah, that's great. Cause I have all the fiduciary responsibility or the employee responsibility, et cetera. risk and compliance, all those things that I had no exposure to. So I my Institute of Banking exams and then did my Institute of Directorate exams and then yeah took on the country head role. So it's been not a straight path. Had to pivot, had to rethink things, you know, thought my career was in retail banking, decided it wasn't and here I am enjoying it. Matt (05:04.186) Do you think in hindsight it was useful, essentially you started, presumably you started working when you were 18 when you finished your A levels, so, and you didn't go to university. Do you think, do you think that hindered you at all? Tamsin Hobley (05:09.938) Yeah, yeah, no I didn't. I don't think it hindered me and I don't think, you know, because of the experience that I was getting. I the graduate programme at Lloyds was really good. I mean, and they gave you really good opportunities. I went and worked for the Prince's Trust for six months on a secondment. You know, so I really don't think it hindered me. I think I honed my skills and developed them much earlier than if I'd gone to university. And, you know, I came away with, you know, the... The banking degree, it's not just banking, there's law, economics, accountancy as part of it as well. It's quite well -rounded in the experience that I got from the actual on -the -job training and also the exam work that I was doing. I've got my first house at age 21, you know. My friends were just coming out university with massive amounts of trying to find a job. yeah, so I don't have any regrets at all, not at all. Matt (06:07.758) You mentioned when you started with six telecoms, which is what the old green screens, right? When you were doing sales then, and then you mentioned you went into like sales leadership and then more strategic kind of sales. Can you explain what sales is pretty quite clear what it is? You're out selling data and terminals and so on. But what sales leadership, what's strategic sales? What's the difference? Tamsin Hobley (06:13.9) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm. Tamsin Hobley (06:20.338) Yeah. Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (06:27.282) Yeah, yeah. Tamsin Hobley (06:32.468) So I guess really you're like, we were selling terminals when I first started, which is more transactional. And then we got more into like the enterprise feed business. So selling larger kind of data feeds and then selling them to a bank across different kind of business lines. So you'd call that more enterprise, you know, solution selling, you know, you're solving problems that the banks were having with data that literally wasn't complete or didn't have. right coverage and it wasn't accurate and it wasn't timely. know, timing of the data was becoming more more needed in those days. So the, you know, the complexity of dealing with a more strategic, like, you know, the large investment banks, but you're then selling to all the asset servicing division, you know, the investment management arm, the private banking arm, et cetera. and providing sort of big solutions that go across all those different areas. you have to have a level of skills to be able to do that. You're not just selling in a transactional way anymore. And then when you're leading sales, you're leading your sales team to manage existing books of business. And I always used to say to my team, look at your book as if you're your own CEO of your own little patch, whatever territory you got, whatever existing book of. accounts you've got, treat that like your own business and you will be successful because that's the way I did it. I just thought, okay, here's what I've got, here's what I want to grow it by, how am I going to do that, you know, and actually plan. So it's not just a case of, you know, the go to market part, how you work out how you're going to sell is incredibly important as well. And having honed that experience over the years. I was able to pass on that knowledge and drive performance through a sales team. And then kind of like, just moving up that sales ladder. So having like heads of sales that then working for me. So thinking much more about the strategy of, if we've got a new product, where are going to position it? Who are we going to sell it to? How are we going to do that? How are we going to get the brand and the awareness, et cetera? So moving more into the strategic side. Matt (08:50.554) What's a good way for people to learn sales? Because there's lots of different sales methodologies. There's lots of different people who have different approaches. There's no single winning way of doing it. There seems to be people who have their own personality, own different processes, different ways of doing things. There's different industries and different types of people you're selling to. In your experience when you're selling in your world, was there any particular processes Tamsin Hobley (08:57.16) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (09:01.532) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (09:10.184) Mm -hmm. Matt (09:20.5) or approaches you used or advice you could give to people. Tamsin Hobley (09:24.97) I mean, anybody that is new into sales, my advice is be curious, you know, and listen. It's a conversation at the end of the day, you know, and it's about relationships as well. There's still a lot of people buying from people that they like and that they trust as well. So building long stand, I still have people now that call me up that I was, you know, selling to. 20 years ago and I say, well, hi Tamsin, I've got a problem, can you help me? You know, cause I've built that relationship. So that's really, really important. I'm not a favor of methodologies. I think that, you know, learning from other people and actually on the job is more important. No one can really teach you how to cold call because you need to develop your own style and you're only going to do that through practice. No one can really teach you how to hold your own meeting. and bring experts in the room and the right people and know when to, you know, bring up something or take a conversation into a different sort of thread. That just comes with experience. But learning from other people, you know, well, not what to do as well as what to do as well. I I've had some people that I've kind of thought, gosh, I'm never going to do that in a sales meeting. I don't want to copy that style, but then I've copied other styles. And even now, I still... I'm still a sponge. think you need to be. You need to be, you know, what's going on in the market. I think preparation is key as well. So really look at the company that you're going to sell into. Look at what their strategy is. Look at what their needs may be. Do your research, do your prep. Find a really good elevator pitch for what it is you're trying to sell and why you think it's going to be useful to the person that you're selling it to. So I think a lot of it is just, you know, just really thinking cleverly about it. Matt (11:27.802) So in terms of 6 today, 6 does quite a lot of different things. Can you explain the different areas it covers and what you look after? Tamsin Hobley (11:32.837) Yeah, yeah. Tamsin Hobley (11:39.402) Yeah, so I sit my functional role where I run our global alliances and partners falls under our financial information business, but it does touch the group level. And then in my country head role, I'm purely at the group level. So in the UK, for instance, we've got 140 staff and we've got three of our business units that are represented in London. Globally we've got about 4 ,000 staff and our four business units are financial information, so that's financial data that we sell to the finance industry. And then we have our exchange business. So we are the Swiss and the Spanish stock exchange. So we've got the Swiss exchange and the BME, which is the Spanish stock exchange, is part of our group. And we also have a digital exchange as well, which was started in 2021. And then we have our post -trade business. which is like custody services, settlement services. And then we have our business banking. So our business banking division is really very Swiss based. So we don't have those operations in London, but if you do go to Switzerland, you'll probably see the six logo on any chip and pin if you're paying for something. And many of the cashpoint machines were operated by six on behalf of the banks. And we run all the interbank payments as well. So I guess, you know, we're kind of like a utility for the Swiss market. We're owned by the banks that operate in Switzerland, but we are a tech company because we're providing infrastructure and, you know, different kinds of services for the banking community. So we play quite an important part in the ecosystem. particularly in Switzerland and Spain, but we are an international global company with lots of offices around the world. So we sell custody services to global banks and we sell financial data to global banks, et cetera. So, and then we have like some tech companies that we've acquired over the time. So there's parts of our businesses that are very Fintech -y and there's parts of our business like the Swiss Exchange, which is incredibly traditional. Matt (13:55.222) It all obviously touches finance and money moving around or is related somehow. it's under that financial technology. How do you see Fintech? Because you just said then like smaller FinTechs. So do you see FinTechs as something where they're startups or do you see it actually as everything's a Fintech? Tamsin Hobley (13:58.184) Yes. Tamsin Hobley (14:02.931) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (14:08.756) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (14:15.718) I'd say we're a Fintech. I mean, we're a big corporate company, but where everything is technology that we do, without technology, we wouldn't be providing data, we wouldn't be providing services. We wouldn't be an exchange. We need a technology platform, right? We've got two exchanges. We've got to actually look at how we combine those exchanges through a new technology platform so that our customers have one access to two different marketplaces. Technology underpins everything we do and we service finance industry. So we're our Fintech, we're an FMI, we're a Fintech. And then we have certain parts of our business, which are, I would say more new, more of a startup. Like the digital exchange, you we started that in 2021 and that's driving business and, you know, for tokenized asset. crypto, et cetera. So that's startup, that's innovative, that's building an exchange for the future to enhance liquidity and accessibility, but unlock the new opportunities for driving growth in crypto and digital assets. So that's definitely innovative and new and more startup -y. Matt (15:37.85) So in terms of innovation, where do you... So you're looking after partnerships. How do you see partners helping innovation that you're looking at? Do you partner to innovate or do you have internal teams and departments that are looking at, like the digital exchange, where they're kind of breaking barriers internally? But would you also do the same with partners and what part do they play? Tamsin Hobley (15:47.092) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (16:02.451) Yeah. Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (16:09.586) Yeah, and there are partners involved in the digital exchange. We've got Asia Next, that's the partnership. I think SIX is evolving in the right direction to not always think we have to buy things or build things, but we can partner. So we can't keep up with all the trends that are happening in our marketplace. but we are happy to invest in companies that can bring niche to us or partner with companies that can do that. And there's a huge ecosystem. obviously I'm looking more at the commercial side of our partners, but we have inbound partners as well that provide things to us that we can't do ourselves or do something with our data in a quicker way than if we tried to do that ourselves and build it. So like we just launched the global indices series and we have been able to do that through partnering and investing in a company called Bitter and we wouldn't have been able to do that ourselves or if we would it would have taken us several years and there's a need for it in the market now so it gives us, know, it just moves us along faster to be honest with you. Matt (17:34.724) Let's move on to ESG. I guess firstly, what is ESG and where do you see and how do you see it being important in the industry as we go forward? Tamsin Hobley (17:36.681) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (17:40.116) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (17:48.51) Yeah, so ESG, like, you know, for those that don't know that, that's environmental, social and government. And I guess it covers a broad range of like non -financial issues that are increasingly kind of affecting financial risk and opportunity. So a lot of investment decisions that the financial sector are increasingly sort of like focused on. around ESG and it's proven that if you embed ESG into investment decisions, it leads to better outcomes for the environment and where sustainable finance is different to traditional finance, it can direct capital towards things that generate the positive impacts of the environment and society. Tamsin Hobley (18:45.236) And then I'm kind of involved with the APPG really because we're looking at how we can deliver solutions for the financial sector, but actually outside the financial sector for just any SME as well around, you know. ESG solutions and investment opportunities, et cetera, and green finance, et cetera. So I'm kind of like working with them, or we have a team that are working with them around how we can actually join together with policy that's being made from government and regulation that's coming down the pipe, you know, because we want to be able to help our customers with that very complex kind of regulation and policy that's coming our way. Matt (19:34.157) and And what, as we approach like 2030 is always this kind of milestone date for a lot of things related to this for someone to understand a bit more tangibly about ESG and the impact of it. Can you just talk through like why a company would want to comply with these types of things? Why is it important? Because in recent years, there's been a little bit of a backlash against some of the kind of ESG. Tamsin Hobley (19:39.401) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (19:51.358) Hmm. Tamsin Hobley (20:02.548) Hmm. Matt (20:04.74) Push. Can you just talk around that? Tamsin Hobley (20:06.004) Mm. Yeah, I mean, I can't talk with any, I mean, I'm not an ESG academic. We've got people, I rely on people who help me with that. But I think, you I mean, if you put it like, if I'm trying to sell a service from the company that I'm currently working for or any company into another company, a lot of the questions they're going to ask is about what you do to cover you know, sustainability and ESG in your company. So there's a bit about a company being a good corporate citizen as well. And we've all got regulations that we're going to have to meet. We recently moved offices and when we moved office, we had to make sure that the office that we were going into was going to meet new regulations that are coming for the way that we use the building, you know, how we use the energy, et cetera. and there's different ratings applied to those buildings. And those buildings are not gonna be able to be rented out to commercial unless those ratings are there, it's called an EPC rating. I think they're changing in 27 and again in 2020, 30. know, everything about running a business, you can't hide from it touching you in some way or another. So you might wanna do business with another company that wants to know. you know, do you have policies around anti -slavery and things like that? You're going to want to attract staff, you know, who may have, you know, very strong views about the type of company they want to work for and the culture that that company has. And then you've got things like practical things like, you know, managing a resource like a building and the energy consumption that you and your staff will use. So, you know, it kind of infiltrates everything that we're doing. Tamsin Hobley (22:05.2) And then we've obviously companies have targets to meet around net zero, know, companies will put quotas around diversity, et cetera. And then there's the cultural aspect, know, ESG is very broad. I it can cover, you know, mental health and wellbeing, you know, obviously diversity and inclusion, et cetera. there's lots and also youth and all sorts of things. And it's about giving back to communities. So there's... There's so many things and many elements to it. I don't think companies and corporates can get away with doing nothing and ignoring it. And it's going to affect the way that we invest and we buy in the future. Matt (22:51.29) So touching on the culture piece, you mentioned it a couple of times then. People, when they're looking at companies they want to work for, there's other factors that people may take into account now that you might not have done 20 years ago. That culture piece, that sounds like it's something that's important to you. What? What? What? Tamsin Hobley (22:53.865) Thanks. Tamsin Hobley (22:59.924) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (23:05.192) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (23:13.074) Incredibly, yeah. Matt (23:14.19) Yeah, can you talk through why culture is important and how do you go about instilling that in a company and in the staff? Tamsin Hobley (23:27.112) Yeah, I mean I think the main thing is that you want a six, you want high performing teams right. In order to be a successful business you want your staff to be high performing and one way that they're going to be high performing is they enjoy where they work and it's not always a transaction in terms of how much money they're paid and whether they're going to get promoted. Clearly they're important as well but there are other assets. You mentioned that I've been at six for 20 years, I have. And the reason I've stayed, and it's not that I've had opportunities to not to leave, I have, I've been offered other opportunities. But the reason I've stayed is because of the culture. The culture has been incredibly important to me. They supported me whilst I took time out to raise my family. They supported me when I came back as a working mum. They supported me through some difficult, challenging moments in my life where I've needed some time away to grieve or recuperate after health issues. So those kind of things are really, really important. And actually just being with a company that you think cares and listens, I think is super important. And then when you look at things that are very important to myself and a lot of people about diversity and inclusion. For me, in London, we have an incredibly diverse workforce and that's really super important because we need to listen to all different aspects to be successful. And I think being a woman, I've had some challenges over the years and I want to make sure that women coming behind me don't have those challenges. I want to empower them and... coach and mentor them so that they have the opportunities that can and will be available for them. So all of these things lead into culture and I think driving that sort of cultural change and also taking into account things like learning and development, you know, and just creating that kind of family environment. We may be part of a big corporate company, but in the UK we're a family. You know, we collaborate, you know, we grow together, we kind of win together, we have fun together. Tamsin Hobley (25:44.202) And I think that makes it a fun place to work. And we do a survey when people join us. We take this really kind of, very seriously. We want to get feedback when people have been with us six months about their experience, from the first day of onboarding to suggestions of how we can improve. And we do staff satisfaction. So we take those. that feedback that we get very importantly, we drive change, you know, to constantly kind of evolve and make things better. Matt (26:20.504) You mentioned you took some time out when you had some new raising a family. How when you went back to work, because I always think there's lots of probably great people that never come back to work. And because it's not because companies don't make it easy for women to come back to work, which is a big problem in itself. But. Tamsin Hobley (26:22.537) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (26:29.011) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (26:35.241) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (26:39.272) Mm -hmm. Matt (26:43.995) how when you did come back to work, how did you kind of maintain that balance while you're still a mother and you're in a senior leadership position? Tamsin Hobley (26:52.722) Yeah, it's challenging. think like, you know, working mother's guilt is real. You know, I think, you know, there are days and times when you kind of think, you know, if only I could be at the school gate or if only this, you know, but in the day I always kind of looked at the bigger picture. We had a very good, you know, childcare provider that helped us. and we had family and my husband and I both kind of like managed to, you know, he's a career person as well. We managed our diaries, organization is really key. But I think, you know, when I look at the bigger picture, I thought, well, what am I teaching my sons? As they grow up and they look back and they kind of look at mum, you know, hopefully I've taught them a lot of positive things. I think I taught them a good work ethic. I that I've taught them that women can be successful, you know, so hopefully they will promote women in the work environment when they get there. They're both studying at universities at the moment. And, you know, and hopefully they're proud that mum has been pretty good at her job, hopefully. So yes, I was not there at the school gate. Maybe they didn't get invited to a party because I wanted friends with the mums that were at the school gate, but... They can't remember that. So I kind of think now they remember, mum did this and mum did that and mum travels. This is exciting. So yeah, I don't look back with regret. And I think I'm happy working. So therefore, if I'm happy, I'm a better mum because of it. Matt (28:35.846) What do you think companies can do to encourage and make it a friendlier place for women who do want to take time out and have a family but also come back to work? Tamsin Hobley (28:46.29) Yeah, yeah. I think that you just need to have a good kind of like maternity policy. I think that's really, really important. You know, be supportive when they need time and financial support during the kind of like maternity leave. I think you need to think about when mums return back to work, what do they need? You know, we've built a, we call it a quiet room because it's multi -purpose. for all sort of needs, but you know just thinking about, is there a nursing mum need? And I think actually, I I came back part -time, so I came back three days a week initially and that rose to four days and then to five. But I worked three days, but really I worked four days because I did a lot outside of those working days, but I was given the flexibility that if I needed to leave early because there was a problem with childcare or if there was a meeting at the school or something like that or there was an important event, a non -negotiable event, the company supported me to go and do that. But I think that that's what builds up that kind of... loyalty really to be honest with you. So I think companies treat their female mothers and fathers as well. Let's be honest, we've got an equal policy for our soon to be fathers. There's somebody who's recently taken out the paternity leave and the co -parenting leave. Offering things like that make a difference, they really do. And then we have like... a parents at work kind of community. So you can go and talk to people that are having the same kind of like struggles and issues. think things like that, the cultural aspect around that is quite important. So you're building support communities, not just your line manager and HR, you know, and the company's kind of culture, but actually people that are in the same boat as you. And that's important as well. Matt (30:47.864) Yeah, and unless you have that, there's always a problem in probably every industry, but particularly financial services and fintech. There's very little female representation at senior level. And unless you fix some of these problems, there never really is going to be people coming up, because the volume of people is just so much lower. Tamsin Hobley (30:55.679) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (30:59.529) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (31:04.682) Absolutely. Yeah and sometimes the only way you can do that and I'm not a fan of quotas but sometimes the only way you can do that is to actually look at quotas to actually really look at your females and the levels that they're at compared to your males and sometimes you need a quota to actually fix it. You know you need to look at the data, the data will tell you where you're going wrong. Matt (31:32.6) What's your view on having diversity of thought? on a board where there's people from lots of different backgrounds. And again, I think that quota piece might come into a certain amount where you need to proactively make things diverse. What's your views on, I suppose, things just growing organically versus probably pushing that diversity agenda a bit harder? Tamsin Hobley (31:44.457) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (32:02.568) Yeah, I mean I think, you know, I don't think it's just boards. I think in business in general, you know, I think you need a diversity in tenure. So you need people that have fresh eyes, you know, looking at problems versus people that have got the experience that kind of know maybe the next steps and how you would kind of work through the next thing that needs to be done. I think you need a diversity in age. I think you need a diversity in gender and you need a diversity in different cultural backgrounds that may have a different perspective. If you're trying to sell into a certain type of sector, you probably need that cultural kind of background as well, in terms of ethnic background. So I think that having that diversity of thought is important to be successful anyway. I go to a lot of these women's networks and lot of diversity networks, and it's really, a lot of stats are shared about you know, how having that diversity actually gives bigger growth and bigger returns. And I fully believe that. You know, I think, you know, when I first took over the country head, I had an average age of late forties. We were only sort of 60 staff at that stage. We're now 150 staff. And now we've got a real different profile and mix. and we're growing really, you know, we're really driving the strategy out of the UK office and growing and I think that having the diversity of the staff that have different thinking and thoughts and can add different things has been really part of contributing to how we're doing that. Matt (33:52.59) So in terms of on the leadership side, now that you're kind of... Tamsin Hobley (33:57.737) Mmm. Matt (34:00.75) very horizontal, I suppose, looking at lot of different things, lots of different areas. So very much that kind of CEO role or entrepreneurial as well in a way, because you're getting involved in so many different things. How would you and what would you say to young people that want to get up to like a leadership role? What are the key attributes or things they need to learn or how they should act? Tamsin Hobley (34:03.602) Yeah, yeah. Tamsin Hobley (34:09.374) Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (34:20.799) Yeah. Matt (34:29.87) How can I prepare now for what could come in the future? Tamsin Hobley (34:31.668) Yeah. Yeah, so I guess if I look back at my kind of like 20 year old self and kind of had to give myself advice, I think be brave. Go for jobs that may be bigger than you are, know, push yourself, constantly push yourself. The Poster Cylindrome Syndrome is real, but you know, sometimes you just need to kind of challenge yourself, take yourself outside your comfort zone, absolutely. I think trying different types of leadership styles is really good. mean, having come from a sales leadership, that's a style of leading, you know, because you are, I remember I had an executive coach once and said, you know, when you look at a chessboard, a salesperson's the knight on the chessboard, you know, and if you're going to be a leader of a wider variety of people with different skills and different jobs and functions, you need to move yourself from the knight on the chessboard to more of a queen or a king kind of state, you know, and that was something I took quite, I thought that really got me thinking. And I thought, right, okay, I need to change my style quite a lot in different leadership scenarios. And I think actually understanding how people tick and understanding how teams work and encouraging that team kind of like spirit where there's going to be lots of different views. think that's the success of a good leader. and just trying something new sometimes. Don't just do the same thing all the time. You might get a different result. You might be shocked by that result if you try something different. Matt (36:18.764) On that, could you just talk about communication as well? Because in order to be a leader, he needs to be able to communicate. But communicate is a two -way street. It's not just one way, right? Can you just talk about that? Tamsin Hobley (36:26.335) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, mean look, you know, there's different ways of communicating as a leader. You know, think consistency is key. You know, I have consistent kind of town halls and consistent ways that I communicate through newsletters and updates and things like that. And then you've got the communication where I'm just walking around the office and I'm just chatting to people. I want people to see that I'm approachable. I want, you know, to have just conversations about their children and their family and what they've done at the weekend, as well as business topics as well. And I think showing curiosity as a leader, you know, asking questions, showing an interest in what they're doing is important. And then I think, like, as you say, like communication is two ways. So really listening to what people are telling you. We talked about culture and our customer survey. We do cut client surveys as well. It's exactly the same thing. You listen to what people are telling you and you look to improve and make things better. you know, having people come and talk and open up about business problems they've got or, you know, I think it's really important that you kind of like take their views and actually think, well, actually they've got a really good point. You know, sometimes if you just think this is the way it should be done, you're not. Tamsin Hobley (37:59.172) goes back to the diversity thing, you know, you're not really thinking outside the box sometimes and I've been shocked by some of our new staff, the brilliant ideas they're coming up with and you actually kind of just go, you know, why did I not think of that? That's such a great idea and it's so simple. So I think communication is said goes two ways. I think I'm a better leader by actually just letting people, empowering them to go and innovate and be creative and sometimes letting them fail because I think it's the quickest way of learning. Sometimes I might think that's not going to work but I think they need to learn through the failure but then sometimes they don't fail and it does work and I think well who's the fool now? Matt (38:47.066) So what's next for you and 6? What's the next big milestone? Tamsin Hobley (38:51.393) For me in six or for me? So for me in six, I have a very ambitious kind of view on how I want to run the partner and alliance business. We only really started that business line at the start of 2024. So I've got a pipeline of things that I want to do. Actually, I've got Matt (38:54.745) both. Tamsin Hobley (39:15.728) know, workshops next week to do some more strategic planning. So I've got a long list of things that need to be done there. And I think really creating a partner ecosystem is super important. You know, really understanding the workflow in a customer's environment and how the different parts all fit together. I think that's something we've not been particularly good at doing at SIX and that's something we're looking to really improve on. Continue doing the country head role, I love that role. I think that's kind of like, you know, that feels like my baby. I'm very passionate about that. So I've got no intention of giving that up. I love it. For six, there's lots that we're doing. We're innovating, we're investing, we're growing, you know, inorganically as well as organically. So there's lots of exciting things going on there and I'm sure there'll be lots more opportunities for me and for many of our staff. But I think for me, I kind of looked at that kind of point. I've been at for a long time and I've managed to reinvent myself, I think, through that process and change and evolve. But, you know, it's my last hurrah at SIX or is it somewhere else? Is it at a startup? Is it something that's kind of, you know, different? Because I've worked for a corporate for a long time. I think looking at some of like non -exec roles is something that I'm very interested in. I sort of sit on some kind of charities. But moving more into the, you know, can some of the skills and things I've learned over the years help other businesses to be successful? Can I guide and mentor? So I think that's probably the next stage as I'm getting further in my career. It actually is about actually giving back a lot more. I think that's you get to that sort of stage. So, but I'm not giving up work yet. No, I'm far too happy living my best life, enjoying being a corporate woman. with my sons at university and having lovely holidays. So no, I'm very happy with my lot. Thank you. Matt (41:19.94) how can people follow you or reach out to you? Tamsin Hobley (41:24.906) So I'm on LinkedIn, you know, and happy for anyone to direct message me. We're having the Work in Fintech Day on the 30th. We're hosting that in our offices. I'm super excited about that. So students should apply and hopefully come and join us as a long list of great companies and people that are giving their time to share some of their experiences. So that's another way of connecting with me. I'm on the advisory board for the investment association, so any fintechs there that want to talk to me, happy to. Yeah. Tamsin Hobley (42:07.678) quite accessible. Matt (42:10.871) Well, Tamsin Hobbly of Six, thank you very much for your time today. Tamsin Hobley (42:16.19) Thank you, Matt. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you.